If a group of high priests is found and tells me to retire it will be a blessed decision
Three years after his last television interview, His Beatitude the Archbishop of Athens and All Greece Mr. Hieronymos welcomes ERT, the Public Television in the Holy Archdiocese of Athens. The questions from ERT journalist Costas Lascaratos, they were about current affairs, from Greek-Turkish and the elections, until the case of the "Ark" and Saints "Isidore" and the reunification of the Parthenon Sculptures.
The Archbishop also answered the question "what do you hold and what would you like to be their imprint 15 years of personal journey", talking about "a Church that doesn't want to get rich but stand on its own two feet and not beg for oil for old people's homes".
His Beatitude insisted on the "vision" of Schistos, speaking of an independent Church, while he reserved "news" referring to his succession: "It will be a blessed decision for me, because I still have a lot to do", the Archbishop said indicatively, insisting that he is "ready if the hierarchs want it and if God wants it".
K. Λ: I would start with your already fifteen-year course at the helm of the Hellenic Church, memoranda, pandemics, economic crisis aggression of Erdogan. From the statements about yurusi we reached the hugs of the two foreign ministers Dendias. Cavusoglu I want to ask you if you think this will last. That is, if the Turkish leadership will turn the wheel and if this is something that will pass, it will be forgotten and we will return to the same, to violations, the challenges, to threats.
Archbishop: "I would like to say that I am also participating, like all the Greeks in this pain in this tragic event of the destruction of so much of the world. The wounds in people's hearts from the earthquakes that we experienced intensely these days. It is also touching the phenomenon of Greeks in our environment almost exerting pressure (which was not needed) to help in any way, whether it's clothes, coverings, either food or medicine to be sent to these people. We see them and I get excited. The fact of the earthquakes itself is shocking, but also touching is the effort of the people, I believe from all parts of the neighboring world, but also from Greece, which probably some thought that we would not be so unmoved in this particular case. It is a very impressive fact and gives us the possibility to believe in something better.
OK: The friendship that the two countries seem to be developing again could have lasted;
Archbishop: "This is what is desired and it will definitely take some time. But the inner way of man is when he is not regenerated but learns to be in himself, will return us again to the same adventures".
OK: You see it as an opportunity to open up other issues now that world public opinion has fallen on Turkey, to open other issues such as Hagia Sophia. Erdogan had made her a banner for a long time. Could be a serious issue again this time;
Archbishop: “This issue would have been raised if we were serious. Not only from us Greeks, the Orthodox, but from the whole Christian world, but more to these Muslims and the Turkish world as well, since it is a timeless cultural monument and should not be identified with specific periods of life or with specific events of wars etc.. All these monuments wherever they are, either in Turkey or in Syria demolished, they have their own story, which progresses over time. I believe that in these monuments, regardless of the changes made in border states, these monuments must remain free and for all people.
OK: We have a national election in a little while and you know many like to rank the Archbishop when from here, when from there, when with one government, sometimes with the other. And this is not only done by citizens. Politicians do it too. Let me tell you they think the Church has votes. So I'm asking directly. He has a preference for political parties;. The Hellenic Church has a preference for parties. Archbishop Jerome;
Archbishop:"Look, I will answer you honestly it would be tragic. I who lived with 8 changes, 10 changes of prime ministers, presidents etc. to look back on my life and see what it is 8 the 10 Pieces. No, my character is one. I value every person. I believe in his freedom and many times when I am asked "what would you like to vote for.";» , I ask them what you generally vote for; From there I know this man who has some principles that I respect, I follow them and this is what I recommend. I mean, I don't want to want to say that I'm getting into a partisan confrontation, but I want to say that I help people in my opinion so that their choice according to their own criteria, to turn to a man who will help politically, parliamentaryly our homeland and our country.
OK: Let me ask what is your relationship with the two main players at the moment with the prime minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis and the leader of the official opposition, Alexis Tsipras; Because from time to time we journalists have learned that we have missed a lot of news, phone calls, meetings, mornings, night hours. So your communication with these two political men is regular.
Archbishop: "All of you should not forget that we are human too, we have our friendships, we have our acquaintances, we have special relationships and therefore we feel the need to have a communication either by phone or in person. I was given the opportunity all these years, the 15 – 16 years, to communicate with everyone, to have talked and to have cooperated. Of course, as a human being, I also have my feelings, I also have my choices and I could say I lean sometimes from here and sometimes from there, depending on what's in front of me, but I would like to say that in general I appreciate everyone I worked with because everyone has good elements as well, good traits, good mood and with everyone I have something to remember.
OK: We have been discussing the wiretapping issue for many months. The opposition parties talk about the issue of democracy. I want you to tell me how you see this issue as an observer. And if ever in all these years of your tenure, because you have a pivotal position, you thought someone might be eavesdropping on Jerome;
Archbishop:"Look, this phenomenon is corruption. It is something we would not praise, but we must also be realistic in our assessment of things. And I would say that it is a phenomenon that occurred in our days, but it is something that exists in our lives both personally and politically. There is, lives and will exist". Have you ever thought that someone might be watching the Church or have you seen any such sign over the years; At the age of fifteen you came to the church; “I can't say, there would be no particular reason. The persons who serve in the Church according to their relationships and behavior in their lives. There will certainly be surveillance and this can be seen either from publications or from blackmailing sides or from strange sides. It is not a phenomenon that is characteristic only of our time.
OK : Serious answer, perhaps essential. Bless you, I want to go to the question of the economy. It concerns all citizens 10 to 10. The price increases are something that the family budget can no longer bear. Things are difficult. It is unaffordable for citizens. The Church helps as much as it can with what we once called sysistia ,with the parcels you send in recent years, so that you also put the mark of dignity on people to feel more security and more affection. I would like to ask if you feel lately that the needs have also increased. In other words, more people come to the Church and ask for help;.
Archbishop: "The needs are increasing every day, but other things coincide in our lives that make the difficulties even greater. For example, the period we had 10 with 12.000 food rations on the streets and in our parishes, the disease came, the pandemic which said it is not possible to do this anymore and we had to stop it also because a lot of people were finding it difficult to come and provide cooking work, in offering food. But it was not easy for people to stand in line to be able to get what they were getting. So, the combination of health conditions, pandemic, together with hunger they increased the problem. We turned to another solution in a collaboration with the municipalities and we now give the food in parcels to this day. Thousands of parcels that go to families as well as to individuals. That of individual persons is not successful, because if one takes a package that has dry food, things he can't cook or doesn't have the capabilities, he takes what he wants and throws away the rest. So now he has put us into a temptation and we are studying what would be the best way for him to get through somewhere, to be able to have his food as well as other services, such as washing clothes, overnight stays, the company. And so the form of the institution of hospitality takes on a special form. In that direction we have opened up more and the institutions, which have become very numerous, he is our helper and supporter".
OK : The Church listens to people's needs. One of the basic needs is a roof. And I want to ask you something that is not in the hard core of your remit. I am certainly not asking you to judge Greek justice. But we recently had a decision by the Supreme Court that enables funds to auction properties. Thousands of properties are estimated at approx 700 thousands. Blessedly, people feel that behind such decisions there is a ferocity, an inhumanity, that the sense of justice is lacking;.
Archbishop: "We must not forget that judges are human and they too make their mistakes, their excesses. But there are also some things that take you out of yourself. I think we have to get ahead of these things and this is a matter of general Justice and also of the State".
OK: Your intervention is important, Blessed are you, for this issue. Separation of Church State. A question you must have been asked hundreds of times, I'm not saying tens of hundreds throughout your tenure as Archbishop. He re-entered the table, on social media, on social media on the occasion of the exodus sequence, the funeral of Constantine the deposed monarch. Many netizens thought that the Church looked down on the monarchy, the crown, that he has at any rate good feelings for another state. So I want to ask that. This is exactly how the Church regards the Kingdom;
Archbishop: "Look, these are exaggerations, and the Church, which is served by people, also has its own characteristics. If we take the event of the funeral of King Constantine the old King, it has no such form, nor by any such dimension, as you said. It's just the respect to our history, the respect of these things that we have experienced, but also respect for those persons who are currently suffering either from death or from other trials. Therefore, the group of the king's children, of the king's family, I think he deserved that respect, this dignified behavior and not let it not throw it into the barbaric place. The forgotten of oblivion.
OK: However, you used the term king three times, and I must note it, not discounted, not yet. It makes some sense. That means something;
Archbishop: I saw that the issue was discussed and others were in favor of the expression, others against the expression. We as a Church said our king or event. Those who know grammar, those who know the Greek language, the verb is infinitive second, which literally means one who was once king. So who could today, historian or serious man to say that Constantine did not reign 3, 5, 2 years; Therefore, the performance of the phrase as a royal event does not testify to nostalgia either, nor expectations, it is an honor towards a person that everyone should show the respect they deserve.
What the Archbishop said about Father Antonio
OK: I don't know if I should talk about scandals, but they certainly caused sensation and discussion. One is the case of Father Antonio, of "Kivotos" and the other is the case, the case of Saint Isidore. The Church worked very quickly. Many judged this too, that is, the speed. Some said that the Church of Greece acted instantly because it knew and did not speak for so many years, so he had an idea of the issues and acted. Some others thought you took a chance with the publicity they got the issues to close other accounts. What does all this leave at the end of the day?;
Jerome: "Look, the disease of our time is the speed of news. And above all the speed of information. And the second behavior, excuse me for the phrase, of journalists. The Greek wants the gossip. He likes a lot of discussion around these topics. That's why you'll see whole leaflets about the same things on the same day. The Archbishop in this case even if he knows the problem, if he has lived it, or this is called father Loupasakis, either Father Antonios, he has in his opinion done his duty and made the effort. Sometimes these succeed and sometimes they don't. He has made his fight. Come now let's see. Those who published all this and are published are the same ones who participated in the problem. They are the same ones who went and watched the events. They are the ones who took the lead in this. The duty of the Archbishop, above all else, he is not a commander. He's not a police officer. The bishop and Archbishop is also a father. They are the children who made a mistake in the family. Father Loupasakis, nice to take the measures, in a way that does not degrade the person. He retired in his own way. The Archbishop has no duty, the father, these children who were and are close to him five ten children to test the love of their spiritual father. Why should the Archbishop immediately take the knife and cut off the heads of these children; Love is what heals things. And then to remember this beautiful parable with the Jews. When a woman sins and you know what I mean, everyone took her out to the village square and stoned her. We see it every day. And when Christ came there he said "I will cast away the first stone without sin. Let him who is without sin among you cast the stone". I didn't see this written anywhere. Therefore, I feel sorry for the case of Loupasakis, I feel sorry for Antonio's case, but I also have a duty to stand by so that all these things can be healed. And God has... But let me ask one more question: It doesn't seem strange to you when Father Antonios, as presented by the media which may have exaggerated., he was not honored by the Hellenic Parliament;. He was honored by the University. He won an Academy Award. Europe named him the first citizen of Europe. Where are these people now?;. Shouldn't these people have asked the person in charge, the Archbishop; Who would tell them "be a little measured be a little careful". But they all rushed against him, and they all fell silent. This is how you see it journalistically;
OK: We are waiting for the way things will take in the justice system in this matter. Because things are brought to justice, whether there is a conviction, whether there is an acquittal.
Archbishop: "Now, after such suffering, assuming that Father Antonios was acquitted. These kids, you think that's the end of the matter, were cured;. These children will be able to live as they would like to live; Acquittal does not mean not committing the acts; "The issue is those who took it, who threw the stone or who created this noise, they have no responsibility;».
K. Lascaratos: Let's move on to another topic that has to do with the utilization of church property. With Schistos, some things happened, a project is in progress. I would like a little explanation of where this project is. What exactly is it about?, because it is not well known in society and the technocratic elements.
Archbishop: Those who want to find the truth can find the truth, but they don't want to. It is universally known ,published things that the 96% of the Church's property has been spent. The Church has it 4%. And it comes sometime now and we say that this 4% we must make use of it to be able to satisfy the needs of the people and the state as well as our operation. Separation of Church and State, you said earlier. . I don't know how it could be done. How will the church live when it has no property; He should not listen to all these messages to tell this fortune, I have to use it. Said some venerable church father: The 96% you missed it. You have the 4%, stones, soil. You have an obligation to turn them into spirit. Not to live well, but to make our work the social one. And the work of the Church is not small. In a future that we don't know where it is going, a church should not be independent; You don't feel more comfortable and freer when you have something in your pocket;.
Kostas Laskaratos: So how much the work in Schistos will help the Church to accomplish the work;
Archbishop: My age, the conditions of life, they don't allow for plans today and tomorrow, but one can have visions. Schistos' vision starts from the following: It was 19.000 acres purchased with the contracts. Of these 16.000 trampled or shared. They are the 3.000 today acres and Cosco and the others come and say give and we said no. We will sit in a modern way to utilize them in cooperation between the Church and the state. And this is something I repeat. The Church cannot do it alone, nor with private individuals. The Church can cooperate honestly with the state and move forward and the Church can benefit from this in its work. The State should have its income from there and the people, when for example the Schistos program they say they will work 10.000 people this is not helping the world;
Kostas Laskaratos: Bless you, we started from the drama of our neighbors the Turks. There is another drama in the wider neighborhood. In Ukraine, it is approaching in a few days one year since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. We have seen what has happened in the country. But we also have developments in the churches there in the region. How does the Greek Church see this?;
Archbishop: "It is a great drama for the peoples of both Russia and Ukraine and those involved in this issue. We hurt more, because this conflict is between two Orthodox peoples. The problem starts with selfishness. And even more than the thirst of one of the two to dominate the other and to raise the issue of the separation of the Churches, i.e. Ukraine to be independent from Russia and Russia to have its own course again. So it was a question of voting within the Christian world. There were pressures, there were various events, various offers, various pressures. These were also practiced in the Church of Greece. Here we will have to go a little further. Let's not stay only in the relationship with Ukraine and Russia, but let's see what connects us to the Patriarchate, which Patriarchate is the birthplace. It is the mother that is the central one that has its offshoots. So in an age like ours, with all these problems and especially with the geopolitical ones and even more the relationship between the Church of Greece and the Patriarchate, he must preside over nothing but the relations of the family. That we and the Patriarchate are one family and must work together for the benefit of all of us. Therefore, in the end, we could not do otherwise than to recognize that Ukraine also has the right to have an autonomy, but also our Patriarchate must be our mother Church.
Kostas Laskaratos: Let me take you now to another church, the neighboring Roman Catholic Church. The priest. Francis announced and it was a surprise to most of us, last December that three fragments from the Parthenon would be returned. And on this occasion, this movement of the Pontiff, but also on the occasion of the debate that had reopened on the repatriation of the Glyptos, it is assumed that we are close to a solution, Blessed are you, to return the sculptures to Athens from the British Museum;
Archbishop: Look, I have a connection with the place because the blessed Pope Benedict was my teacher in Germany, at the German University and therefore there was a contact but also with the present Pope we had a contact who came here. I don't know what his feelings are that he said he was playing these pieces on the Archbishop. I thanked him, we discussed with our prime minister and the relevant ministers and these things will come to be placed in the National Museum as a donation from our Church to the Museum. Well. It is not a religious issue, it is a humanitarian issue, more and this communication we had also helped. But I think the story which is a kikeon, it will help to get all the sculptures from different places back to their place.
The time of reckoning and succession
Kostas Laskaratos: Blessed are you, it's time to take stock of the tenure so far, 15 years at the helm of the Hellenic Church, 15 years that had riots about the place and society was divided and society suffered and young people left and never returned to their homeland and a pandemic passed and there is still a suffering in the health sector. You of these 15 years of your personal journey to this position, what are you holding and what would you like the footprint to be; If there is one thing we can all remember from your own path, what do you want it to be;
Archbishop: What everyone wants from their life plays a big role, what has he put first, what has second third. What you said, what is my fingerprint; What I have lived so far and what I would like to continue living. It is a piece by a poet who says: Man does not want much. To be calm and harmless. Some bread, some wine, Christmas and Resurrection. A little bread and a little wine means what to do with wealth; Enough to be able to live. And if we take Christmas out of our lives, the presence of Christ in us and the Resurrection, what is the point; So this is something I carry from my mother, I live it and I would like this to be the end of me.
K. Lascaratos: Earlier you said you didn't want to, you do not wish to be Archbishop for life. That is, you would like to see the successor state; Retire to a library; Continue studying, Reading. After all, from a very young age you have a great writing work. Of course, people have the right, I imagine the archbishops too, to change our minds based on the years that pass, our experiences and our desires sometimes change. So I want you to tell me with your hand on my heart if you've changed your mind or if you still have that desire or maybe you've made another decision to leave where we are and go to a library.
Archbishop: Actually the question is very essential. I would like to tell you that I have not changed my mind. In my case, something happened that has never happened before in Greece. Each Archbishop in his term made a maximum of six seven archpriests. I in the term of 15 years I passed sixty. I consider this a miracle and a blessing from God. This caused a calm, to have a unity. This contributed to making and nurturing big decisions. One decision was to enable the clergy to be self-sustaining, taking money from the public, not a gift, but for the property taken by the public to pay the clergy. They passed with much effort 200 years since then. We managed to do it and a few days ago the decrees came out with the placement of priests in positions that we did not have. This was the one. The second which is also my vision, my wish is that we forget this mentality of King Otto, the Ottoman, of "the,what is of the Church, it belongs to the state. No, the state has theirs and we have ours. So we are in such a time, at a meeting in Schistos, I said publicly that we want to use our property. For the benefit not of us but also of the state and our people and our institutions. And with great joy I heard from Mr. Mitsotakis who said that property in the church is not for him to have 1.000 acres and 2.000 acres, but to cultivate those that give them money, such as serving her needs and helping the world. This is a second slogan, a vision of mine, which I believe the hierarchs will proceed with. The Church does not want to become rich for another reason. She wants to stand on her own two feet, to be able to take care of her own needs and not beg from such and such a stadium for oil for the old people's homes, to be independent. This is the second one. And the third: Her autonomy. It is not possible for me to want, driver or secretary and to wait for the minister to appoint him according to his own criteria. The Church should have its own movement to move forward. This was my purpose and this is my vision. As for the other question, the last: There are many good bishops who can replace me now and at any time, they have abilities. So if there is a group of high priests who say to me you know you are good, but a bit tired, you don't retire;;. I'm telling you honestly, it will be a blessed decision for me, because I still have a lot to do.
You say you are now starting the proceedings, the succession process; That's what you say, that's what i understand;
“But I don't know when. If the superiors ask, I am ready. If God wills it, I'm ready again.
"What you say is news, it's big news", remarked Kostas Laskaratos.
Archbishop Hieronymos answered: I will continue to say that of our poet. And I say it for you too: A man doesn't need much to be naughty. And successful. Some wine, some bread for repast. Christmas and Resurrection».
"You answered with great courage and crucial questions in strange times", said the journalist closing.
Source: ERT